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@mikev said:
btw, per your suggestion, I looked at GBIF. no Beaufortia data but a danger sign: “Beaufortia” is a name used for some Australian plant too, so someone will get renamed when this is noticed….

I met that problem some time ago, because of Beaufortia. Just google it.

As the zoological system is independent of others (plants, bacteries …) there is no problem to keep the genus. See here

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted-sites/iczn/code/index.jsp?article=1&nfv=

“1.4. Independence. Zoological nomenclature is independent of other systems of nomenclature in that the name of an animal taxon is not to be rejected merely because it is identical with the name of a taxon that is not animal”

Cheers Charles

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Nice names help to sell. Years ago I was asked for German names for hillies. Germany didn’t like my list. “Too drily”. Means not sexy enough for selling. The former marketing director in me was a trifle annoyed.

I agree, that there is some work to do:  Annamia, Sinogastromyzon, Plesiomyzon, Lepticichthys, Balitora, Travancoria … And Pseudogastromyzon, Protomyzon, Paraprotomyzon …

I’m looking forward to imports in the next years, yeiii

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yes, Mike. All specimen in trade come in from Vietnam, that’s the “classic” pattern and in this case very straight and regular. Specimen from Cambodia as shown by Matt have a different pattern.

Another interesting patttern: http://diskusmann.de/steckbriefe/karpfenaehnliche/annamia_normani.htm

half regular and half irregular blotches as seen before.

Another point: colour is normally a bright brown, some grey specimen.

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I think it’s a classic one. Pattern like modern painting/calligraphy on fish body.

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@Kajsa12 said:
Some info from Marco Endruweit’s site
http://aquariophil.org/html/b_kw_kweichowensis.html

I remember that exellent site, as we had the B. kweichowensis/leveretti-discussion some time ago. It’s partially helpful in case of Mike’s species: different to the listed ones. But I think, without descriptions we won’t get really an order into that complex. Lucky we are, only two Beaufortia-species swimming round here.

Cheers Charles

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Yep, Mike. Genetic analyses are really helpful. But that’s just one side of the medal. Means: with that “tool” you can answer to questions at the genus/species-level. Other side is this: in the hobby we get constantly species we can’t classify. Soemtimes we just have a coarse screen. It’s ok if we dont’ need further infos to have a good sleep. And to breed them is even the best in that hobby. But as we want to know too, we are not so comfortable in this mess.

Thanks for the last five pics, Jim. Classy P. leonardi.

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May be, that Formosania is genetically in reach, Mike, but in this case out of question. Vanmanenia for me too. In fact, Vanmanenia is an open question, as in Sewellia too a mess to which contributed Vietnamese “scientists”.

To make the desaster complete: “The colour pattern of Vanmanenia species strikingly changes with growth” (Kottelat 2012)

As for Jim’s specimen: ventral pic shows a head form as in P. zollingeri, unscaled ventral part too. But that’s just a pic.

Means: for the collection of pics Vanmanenia and Formosiana are required too

Cheers Charles

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Hi Matt

Good idea, but what about the copyright-situation?

Jim’s specimen is certainly not the species linked as H. leonardi/Glaser. As even my specimen don’t look like H. leonardi I’m asking myself questions. Only positive point: they came in with the same shipment from Vietnam. No further answers to expect.

About “Vietnam butterfly loach”: http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/closed.cgi?view_archive_item&fwcatfishl1342804958

Annamia sp.? What about B. zollingeri?

“Vietnam butterfly loach” is just a make do seen on exporter-lists.

Cheers Charles

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Thanks Jim.

Both. Matt. The reason is this: with pics of described species we could at least get answers about the id of some traded species. And with pics of traded species it is sometimes possible to bring light into the situation. As we don’t have all descriptions of listed species it is a work on a puzzle. Of course scientific work on the genetic relations would be better. But as continously new traded species ome in, we need some more material to compare.

Let’s take Mike’s species: pics of that species have been showed with different names. B. kweichowenis, B.k. gracilicauda, B. leveretti. With pics on the link that Mike mentioned we can eliminate B. leveretti. Looking at the ventral pics I would say: not B. kweichowensis and not a subspecies. Without a description of B.k. gracilicauda all is open. Given that the genus is Beaufortia we can’t  decide wether B.k. gracilicauda, Beaufortia sp or one of the described species. Important could be pics of fry. As we don’t have pics of B. kweichowensis we can’t even conmpare with the fry of Mike’s species.

The same situation with Annamia: one described species only with very different appearences in imported specimen, jubvenile and adult with different pattern (?)

About pics of fry: pics of Erromyzon sp. “red spots” are different to the few pics we have of young E. sinensis. For me definely a different species.

In Pseudogastromyzon the same situation: Pseudogastromyzon sp “red fin” is still not identified. P. laticeps or not? Next week I hope to have some specimen of Pseudogastromyzon sp “Lunar” here, which is a new species in import(?)

About Jim’s cpecimen: not P. batek, leonardi, tateregani, yunnanensis

Cheers Charles

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You are certainly both right. Looking at this list

Beaufortia
Beaufortia buas (species inquirenda)
Beaufortia cyclica
Beaufortia daon
Beaufortia elongata
Beaufortia huangguoshuensis
Beaufortia intermedia
Beaufortia kweichowensis
Beaufortia leveretti
Beaufortia liui
Beaufortia loos ( (species inquirenda in Beaufortia)
Beaufortia niulanensis
Beaufortia pingi
Beaufortia polylepis
Beaufortia szechuanensis
Beaufortia yunnanensis ((species inquirenda in Beaufortia)
Beaufortia zebroidus

 

B. k. gracilicauda is not valid, but Mike’s species is just this one. Looking at the pics it’s a species different to B. kweichowensis. Would mean: B. sp or one out of the list above.

Cheers Charles

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To have a overview about the classification situation I made a llist out of

Randall, Z.S. & Page, L.M. (2015): On the paraphyly of Homaloptera (Teleostei: Balitoridae) and description of a new genus of hillstream loaches from the Western Ghats of India. Zootaxa, 3926 (1): 57–86.

Balitoropsis ophiolepis
Balitoropsis zollingeri

Homaloptera bilineata
Homaloptera confuzona
Homaloptera ocellata
Homaloptera ogilviei
Homaloptera orthogoniata
Homaloptera parclitella

Homalopteroides avii
Homalopteroides indochinensis
Homalopteroides modestus
Homalopteroides nebulosus
Homalopteroides rupicola
Homalopteroides smithi
Homalopteroides stephensoni
Homalopteroides tweediei
Homalopteroides wassinkii
Homalopteroides weberi
Homalopteroides yuwonoi

Homalopterula amphisquamata
Homalopterula gymnogaster
Homalopterula heterolepis
Homalopterula modiglianii
Homalopterula ripleyi
Homalopterula vanderbilti

Pseudohomaloptera batek
Pseudohomaloptera leonardi
Pseudohomaloptera sexmaculata
Pseudohomaloptera tatereganii
Pseudohomaloptera vulgaris
Pseudohomaloptera yunnanensis

 As for annamia

Annamia normani
Annamia thuathienensis (species inquirenda) 

I’m actually collecting pics because there are certainly some spp. around. Mike sent me one of B. zollingeri seen on wetspot e.g. If somebodx knows more, go right ahead

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I see the point. May be we’ll know more when they grow.

Looking throught the archives I found this

http://ffish.asia/?p=none&o=sspm&id=1242

Seems I haven’t got the only specimen back then

Cheers Charles

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Sooner or later the male would bring the female to death. I tried once a well structured 240 lt tank for one pair of blue crowntail, some Poecilia as sparring partner included. All went well for half a year, spawning successful. Then there was not enough place for the female, the male put her down.

In general: it doesn’t work in small tanks, in larger not in long terms. May be, there are more peaceful strains, but I really haven’t met one in fifty years.

Keep them seperately; bring them together for spawning and seperate them again.

It doesn’t work with 1/3-5 either.

Interesting is, that trade tries to sell pairs. Cheep females going at a price as for males?

Cheers Charles

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Yes, Matt

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I can’t even get infos about the locality, Matt. Their preference for the acrylic fence, that isolates the filter from the rest – on the left side in a bow of 30 cm, 12 cm high – makes me think, they prefer flat substratum, like flat stones. They don’t really like gravel, but are feeding on it. They hang on that acrylic fence inside and outside and use to show their social plays there all day. At least the dominant specimen. The others split up on bolders.

Cheers Charles

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